When idling the timing seems to be about 20 degrees and when we disconnect the vacume advance (pull the hose out and plug it up) the timing sits at 10 degrees (according to the manual is correct) however the engine wont idle and shuts down. Any ideas?  

Generally speaking too much advance will degrade your idle. You didnt say what carb you are using but you have your vacuum advance set to a port below the throttle plates now. Lots of cars tolerate this, but depending on a lot of variables your apparently isnt. Move the vacuum advance to ported vac,,,that is a port above the throttle plates (almost all carbs have two-one above and one below) and you will see a better idle. It wont affect the driveability much because as soon as your throttle plates open the advance will come in. In fact thats the way the factory set it.  

Thanks for that. I have a Edelbrock 600 on the 289. I'll give that a go!  

Factory timing settings for a 65 289 is 6 degrees BTDC.  I have mine at about 8 because of where I live, but try coming off that 10 degrees a few and see if that helps.  

Well Advance is good. Advance raises your peak combustion pressure and peak pressure is "horsepower". The downside of course is that at idle you can only tolerate so much. If he changes the vacuum advance to ported vac that will take out 10 degrees or so and should clear up his idle. His initial is fine if you dont get any "ping". Your timing should be set as far advanced as can be tolerated without pinging, or at least with minimal ping. This usually works out to about 10 to 12 degrees depending on intake air temperatures and loads etc. When the engine pings just slightly, then it disappears is where you will get the best mileage and power. Newer engines are always at this threshold because the knock sensor senses it and controls the timing.  

Good Points, Mech guy!  I remember back in the 70's-80's we used to defeat the vacumn advance(cap off) and retard the static timing to improve the NOX performance on our California cars. No wonder the late 70's cars had such poor performance.  

Ty, but hey, I was there at Ford then, calibrating those bad running cars,,lol. We were just learning then and doing the best we could before computers. Once computer control took over it revolutionized engine control, Did you ever notice that no one ever collects or saves a late 70's or early 80's car. They went to the scrap heap in millions,,,I guess they drove so bad and no one could fix them. Us old guys still know how to fix the 50's and 60's cars,, thats why they are still around. You dont need a computer and two technicians standing by to figure out carburetors.  

I heard that mechanicalguy.  I tune my 65 289 by ear.  I stick it close to 8 degrees BTDC with the timing light, then use my ear to tweak it.  Same with the carb.  2 1/4 turns out, then tweak with the ear from there.  I drove to San Marcos today which is a 40 mile round trip and got 21 MPG with my 289 2V with a three speed manual and 2.73 rear gears.  Normal is 18.  I rebuild Motorcraft carburetors.  One of my best rebuilds is on my 65.  

mechanicalguy48:
Ty, but hey, I was there at Ford then, calibrating those bad running cars,,lol. We were just learning then and doing the best we could before computers. Once computer control took over it revolutionized engine control, Did you ever notice that no one ever collects or saves a late 70's or early 80's car. They went to the scrap heap in millions,,,I guess they drove so bad and no one could fix them. Us old guys still know how to fix the 50's and 60's cars,, thats why they are still around. You dont need a computer and two technicians standing by to figure out carburetors.

 Yeah, I had one of those new 1972 cars back then and it was definitely a big performance drop.  I had a 302-2V Ford Maverick that got 12-14 mpg and topped out at about 105 mph when new.  After removing the blocking diaphragm to the vacuum advance, plugging the distributor vacuum retard hose, and resetting the timing to about 12 degrees it got 15 to 20 mpg and would run about 115 mph.

Something else to consider is a stretched timing chain.  As the engine ages, the chain will become stretched slightly and the initial timing will become retarded if you try and keep it at factory settings.  I had one that I put over 140,000 miles on and just keep slightly advancing the timing to retain decent performance.  Finally one day it just wouldn’t start. The timing chain had become stretched to the point that it “jumped” a few teeth.  I didn’t realize it at first but decided to replace it anyway since I had taken the cover off.   When comparing the two, you could tell the original one was slightly longer as in “stretched”.  After replacing the timing chain I had to reset the timing back about 15 degrees initial as it was way too advanced from me continually bumping it up over the years.

Depending on the age and mileage on your engine, I would consider this too.  Once the timing chain slightly stretches, factory settings go out the window.  Good luck.  

Did changing the vacum port solve your issue?  

My 65 289 is sitting at about 10 degrees BTDC right now and runs like a scared jack rabbit.  I am going to take it around the United States in a few months starting in Central Texas and going through Houston, New Orleans, South Carolina, Florida, New Jersey, New York and up through the New England area to catch the Fall changing of the leaves.  Then it will be over through the great lakes states to eventually wind up in Seattle.  I'll spend a few days there, then down through California and then cut across to Arizona and eventually wind up back in central Texas.  I have not doubt that my unmolested 65 coupe will make the trip without a hitch.  I will definitely take a timing chain, fuel pump, refurbished carburetor, water pump, etc with me, but I will be in hog heaven all the way.