Hey guys. I have a 65 coupe with manual steering right now. The steering is horrible! There is about 3" of play in the steering wheel. I want to know if I should replace the steering box with a new one from Flaming River ($500) or should I look into a manual or power rack & pinion setup ($1000-$2500)?

Has anyone here replaced their steering box with the Flaming River one? If so, how were the results? Is it a lot easier to steer? I have heard that it almost feels like a rack & pinion or power steering setup. Is this true? Also, how was the installation? Any quirks anywhere?

If anyone has done the manual or power rack & pinion setup can you tell me what brand you used, how hard it was to install, and what the outcome was? I have heard some really bad things about the Flaming River rack & pinion setup.

Thanks everyone!  

Anyone have experience with this? I need to figure something out soon! My steering is very bad!!!  

It depends on your buget, a 16:1 ratio is the same whomever you buy the box from. You can get a new flaming river box for a lot less than the cost of a R&P. If you just want it to steer easier go to PS. I see there's a 19:1 unit but you have to have the short shaft model in your car.( or convert)  

Obviously the new technology with the Rack and Pinion is going to work smoother, but there is really nothing wrong with the original box either if you want an original classic feel.  The problem with either is going to be getting that damn box out and replacing it with a new one.  Since there is no rag joint between the steering wheel and the box, you are going to have to pull the entire steering components out from the wheel to the box, then you are going to have to get all that long crap out from underneath.  You may even have to jack up the engine and move it some to clear.  If I was going to go through all that trouble, and I didn't want to keep my 65 original, I would go with the R&P.  For originality, go with the Flaming River Box
You can also adjust your current box to get rid of that slop.  Do you know how to do that? If not, get back.....  

I would replace the original if it is worn out.  It probably is but there is a chance that it is way out of adjustment.  When I replaced mine many years ago I had the car up on ramps and still had to dig a hole to get clearance to get the shaft clear of the car.  (I no longer work on my cars in the yard.)  A lot has been written about changing to rack & pinion and all these other replacement things available but I find that original stuff in good shape works very well.  Stiffer springs, a larger sway bar, gas charged shocks, and good radial tires are enough improvements for me.  

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I've noticed that the steering in my 66 has gotten loose at highway speed.  I talked to a good old car Ford mech and he thought it was the alignment.  I asked if the box would need adjustment and he said that you really need to becareful with that since he said it normally makes it worse when you do that.

Anyways, how fast does the steering box wear?  Is it something that is a slow happening?  It seemed pretty quick and I think the alignment thing makes sense - thoughts?  

Before any box replacement, every possible source of loose steering should be eliminated first.
1. Spindle nut adjustment.
2. Idler arm looseness.
3. Tie rod ends and center link.
4. Ball Joints

Then: On the top of the steering box is an adjuster screw with a lock nut. Loosen the lock nut, tighten the adjuster screw until it's snug(making sure it isn't just the nut getting tight again), then back it off until it is free. Finally, tighten the adjuster screw slowly until you feel it just touch the top of the sector shaft. Hold it from turning while you tighten the lock nut. Also check for oil at the fill plug there on the top. 85-90w gear lube works. If this eventually winds up on the garage floor, well you know why the steering got loose.

If your steering box is worn out this won't help much. If slightly worn it should help a lot. But needing to adjust this just tells you your box is wearing and will soon need repair.
These are the tag codes, ratios and turns to stop.
HCC AW  Power   16:1   3 3/4
HCC AX Manual 16:1 3 3/4*
HCC AT Manual 19.9:1 4 5/8

* indicates special high performance applications such as GT, Boss, Mach 1, etc.

Good luck
cushman

P.S. I've found old boxes from power steering cars to be in surprisingly good shape and tight. I account for this because the hydraulic slave unit has been doing all the work and the box just turns it on more or less getting a free ride unlike the manual box doing all the work.  

Steering box removal is easiest done with engine out. But here is a section from a Chapman Repair Manual, 1971.
        1965 Comet, Falcon
    1965-66 Mustang, 1965 Fairlane

1. Disconnect horn wire and turn signal wires under instrument panel. With automatic transmission, also disconnect neutral switch wires.
2. Remove steering wheel.
3. Remove steering column clamp.
4. Pull rubber seal up on steering column and move   dash panel insulation out of the way
5. Remove steering column cover plates.
6. Slide steering column from steering gear through opening in dash panel.
7. On 1965-66 models, raise car and remove clutch equalizer and bracket assembly from frame side rail and engine (if equipped).
8. On power steering cars, remove power cylinder rod from bracket to obtain clearance for removal of pitman arm.
9. Remove exhaust pipe from manifold if necessary to obtain clearance.
10. Remove pitman arm with a suitable puller.
11. Remove steering gear retaining bolts.
12. Lower car and disconnect wires from left bank spark plugs to prevent damage to them.
13. On 1965 Comet and Falcon V8s, remove exhaust manifold to obtain clearance.
14. On vehicles with column shift, disconnect shift rods from transmission levers.
15. Remove brake booster if necessary.
16. On 1965-66 (except Comet), remove support rod from cowl-to-spring tower.
17. Loosen air cleaner to obtain clearance if required.
18. Lift steering gear assembly from engine compartment.
19. Reverse procedure to install.

I would also remove the driver's seat. A Ford dealership mechanic (using the word lightly)back in 1971 took an extra step by sawing a three inch cut in the bottom of the firewall hole and bent open the hole for even more clearance. I discovered this in 1998 when I replaced the HCC AT box(19:1) with a HCC AW (16:1)while also installing a stroker engine. My car is a 66 GT-350 and should have had a HCC AX box replacement in 1971 but the Ford place replaced the worn out 19:1 with a HCC AT 16:1. They had a better idea.

cushman  

hey dirt i have a 65 & 66 gt i put in the flamming river rack in both cars.its not hard at all.and it IS a lot better than hte factory steering.BUT if you want the origanl look you have about as much work to do.if you go with the rack from FR you will be best to get the steering column also.

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