wrong starter?

I have a 302 block and a c4, 157t flexplate and a gear reduction 2 bolt starter. I have tried shimming it in and out but have continued to take teeth off the flexplate and cannot get it to start.
Where did things go wrong??  

brand and part numbers on the starter..

what is the application of the bell housing??  

how much crank shaft end play do you have????

could it be a starter for a stick shift model.. as those don't reach in as far..


which part of the teeth is it taking off..

the TIPS or the teeth.. around the outside of the gear..

or the face of the gear teeth? on the side of the ring gear..



never heard that stick shift and automatic starters are different lengths... they are in many ford applications..



Hi Torque/Starter
Part Number: IMI107
Application: With manual transmission


Hi Torque/Starter
Part Number: IMI106
Application: With automatic transmission




this starter below is for automatic applications.. a 3124 is the usual number




this starter is for manual transmission applications..  a 3132

 

duralast (gear reduction) starter motor --DL3205S
pioneer flexplate 157t--FRA-203
the rest is a standard 6bolt bellhousing 289/302 and a c-4 automatic...
I also have tried the duralast DL3132 (direct drive)style starter with no luck
It is chipping off the whole tooth as well as riding on the tips which means that it is jumping? for some reason.
I hope a different perspective can tell me that it is something simple  

the dl3205S application is a 1994 f150 5.0   automatic..



this is a picture of the 3205s




this is the 3223s   and is shown to fit manual transmissions...

if you have a 3132... that is for a manual transmission application..   its too short for the automatic application..

can you compare your starter to this images...

make sure that they did not mix up the box..  

Can you see the difference????
can you verify the opening is wider on your starter as shown above...   the overall length of the starter is the same..

can you measure the distance from the block separator plate... to the face of the flywheel...


another thing..    probably NOT related... but are you running spark plug wire separators..

spark plug wires that are bundled together with tape or tie wraps will cause cross firing..  and can cause kick backs while cranking..    or melted pistons...  wait.. what???

just like on a chevy.. in some of the ford firing orders.. the last 2 cylinders on the drivers side of the engine .. they fire in order..  #7 then #8.       what happens is this is only 90 degrees of crank rotation apart..  so when the number 5 fires.. if they wires are run together.. it WILL induce a small spark in the #7 spark plug wire..  causing the fuel and air mixture to be ignited 90 degrees early..    this is usually NOT enough to stop the piston from coming up.. but it is enough to burn off some of the fuel.. so when the piston gets to the top and the spark plug lights the tightly compressed fuel and air mixture.. it will be TOO LEAN>.  this causes a lean cylinder.. melting the piston.. ruining your day...  if your firing order has the last 2 cylinders on the drivers side next to each other in the cap..    please in the wire separator as the wires cross over the front of the valve cover.. have them in this order...    7, 5, 6, 8    if you think this is bunk.. there is a TSB on it..

wire separators.. 2 buck to 30 bucks..      blown motor.. 300 bucks to 3000 bucks..  

lol I spend more then 3k on this 347....and yes I do have all my wires separated (i have heard that before)
It is the "S" starter and I can see the gear like in the top pic you posted of the starter.
We were going to put a .060 block plate in between the bell housing and the block and try that with just the bell housing behind it.
but even with the coil off the thing still doesnt kick over properly, I have only gotten the engine to start once (screeching and grinding from the starter/flexplate area) but it started right up and hasnt since.  

a HUGE WARNING>>.  if you are going to install one of the dorman/ Motormite / HELP starter spacer plates... other brands might have a similar problem..

please.,...  drill the bolt holes in the plate to at least 1/2 INCH.. and try the plate on the bell housing first..  put the bolts through first.. without the starter...

the factory who made it punched the holes at exactly 3/8"   but it does NOT line up perfectly..   if you try to install the bolts.. you may find that they go in crooked and strip out the bell housing threads..




i have had to fix a BUNCH of bell housings over the years...  i usually counter bore the hole from the back  but only part way through.. leaving at least a 1/4 to 5/16 of material...

i have used allen nuts... but there is little to hold them in the counter bore..

i have also used  solid thread inserts ... again from the back side..  not the starter side... and not all the way through...

this has an external thread of 9/16=12

 

Already done that, drilled them out AFTER I stripped them out.  
we ended up just putting a nut and lockwasher on the back.  

sorry... i should have had faster fingers...  

lol no I did that months ago.... its been this long just tryin to figure it out!
besides me, 6 of my friends (4 of which are ASE cert.) have been baffled for a while now. We can't find a reason why it shouldn't be working.  

lets step back and kick the tires...

first

take a ruler and measure from the block separator plate to the face of the flywheel ring gear..


so you will know how far it needs to reach at a minimum...

second

can you measure from the mounting face of the starter to the tip of the gear extended.. while you jump the starter on the work bench...

third

because you are using the small later model starter..  its drive gear is NOT centered like the 3124/3132...  so if there is any chance that the repaired bolt holes are not in the exact location.. the starter may be clocked slightly wrong.  allowing it to skip.

forth

how does the starter mounting ring fit into the block separator plate?  do you have a steel plate or aluminum

is the centering opening depressed and allowing the starter to be installed off center slightly.

i have had to bend the block separator and pound it flat .. as the starter opening was depressed and was allowing the starter to slip around..   the BOLTS hold it in ... they are NOT strong enough to limit its sideways motion...

twenty fifth   this is a REACH..

can you remove the starter.. and have somebody use a socket and a breaker bar on the harmonic balancer center bolt..  slowly rotate the engine while you measure the block separator plate to the ring gear teeth .. see if anything is warped..
so as the flywheel turns the ring gear moves in and out of the pinion gear causing you headaches..  

We got everything back together and it meshes up perfectly, and it actually turns the engine over. BUT it still has a screeching noise?? and even with locktight, lockwashers, and nuts on both starter bolts, the bottom bolt seems to work its way loose after turning it over once or twice....the only other thing I can think is to drill a hole in the bolt and put a cotter pin through it...lol a bit extreme but why not?  

the original starter is positioned by the separator plate... with the shaft mostly centered in the mounting ring..


your starter is way offset from the center...

rotate it slightly...

perhaps when the threads were repaired.. they did not get back in the exact same spot...

can you spin the starter up with it off the car.. while painting the pinion gear with some paint...  so you can get a good idea of gear engagement..   is it engaging too high???  is it engaging where the top of the ring gear teeth are all the way into the bottom of the pinion gear teeth.???

check your messages above...  

2007 MUSTANG GT auto transmission when you put it in drive it begins to engage then hesitates for a second then completes it's engagement,everything else seems to be performing fine, anyone got any ideas is this thing gonna go south on me or is it a characteristic for this model trans? any help and input would be greatly appreciated.  

rob..   you could have started a new thread on this..

please have the transmission serviced..

you either have a LOW fluid level.. have you checked it with the engine running.. in the transmission in park???

dropping the transmission pan..

reading the sediment in the bottom...   checking for anything other than sort of small amount of pulp from the clutch facing..

if you have brass... steel... aluminum..  that could be bad if its more than a few flakes..


install a new filter with a new seal..

looks like this..




dirty filter reduces fluid flow..  remember. the transmission pump has to PULL fluid through the filter..

lack of fluid flow.. KILLS really expensive transmissions...