Another LED taillight question

Hi all,
First time here, and first time classic car owner (65 Mustang coupe). Still very new at this auto repair/restore hobby. I know how to drive and fill 'er up and that's about it.

I bought a sequential LED taillight kit and new housings and lenses. I thought I had them hooked up correctly, but it seems I don't. Either way I signal, both sides flash sequentially. Any other combination, they both come on and that's it. No sequencing, no difference in brightness if braking. Nothing.
I did replace the original flasher unit in the car with the supplied unit. When indicating, this new unit makes the clicking sound, but at twice the usual rate.

Very frustrating day  

Any help or suggestions are very much appreciated.
CWT  

first...   there are a bunch of different brands...

second..  can you check the ground connections at the front of the car..     if you have original battery negative cable.. it goes from the Negative battery post down to a clamp on the inner fenderwell.. then over to the engine block...

the clamp where it connects midway down the ground cable is NOT just a clamp.. its the GROUND for the body of the car..  its required..  

there has to be 3 ground connections on any car at  MINIMUM..

A..  battery negative to the engine block...

B    battery negative to the body...

C.   a third wire from the engine block to the firewall.


you did not mention the brand name of the kit..   click on my user name.. then send me a private message with the kit brand name and the kit number if possible.. so i can look up instructions...

i am taking that you have the 3 bar tail lights.. not the shelby style that used cougar wide lenses..  if those came on that year. i get confused about options sometimes..  

thanks for the response. I have checked the grounding in the engine bay, and I may have the battery the wrong way round.  

From the +ve on the battery there is a red cable running to the right side of a "clamp" on the fender wall with loads of wires coming from it. On the left side of the "clamp" is another wire which runs away under the engine. I can't see what that attaches to.

The -ve on the battery connects to the alternator.

Is this correct? Or do I have the battery the wrong way? What would happen if I just swapped the battery around so the -ve connects to the fender wall clamp thing?

Many thanks
CWT  

100 weight,
The first time I read thru this I said,  "oh Sh-t, every thing is hooked up backwards" but then my common sense took over (as if that were the case you'd have lots more to worry about than the rear signal lights not working right).
You need to take a photo of the hook-up you've described and post to one of the online photo shares (I personally use Photobucket) so we can see it. That "clamp thing" on the firewall could very well be the starter relay and in that case everything may be OK.

To agree with Wayne, the ground between the body and the engine, and the engine and the battery negative cable are very important for all the body related electrics to work correctly.

Note that you do not necessarily need a ground from the rear of the engine to the body if you already have a ground cable between the negative cable, the engine, and the body. However, it is the factory selected location for the mustang.  

print and study this diagram.. paste it on a wall..  this diagram is LARGER than you can see off to the right..




there are more out there.. similar to this..  

100 weight, just to put Wayne's diagram into perspective..
The cable labeled 14301 is the ground cable from the battery negative (-) side to the engine block. It is normally black, but someone may have used a red one on your car. It doesn't matter, just makes it a little confusing.

It may be a good idea to take your car to a good auto electric shop to make sure that starter relay is hooked up right. I've got a '66 and have heard of those relays catching fire from having a constant load on them, or like JLG suggested, post a close up pic and we can check it out for ya.

Also, if you you have any problem posting a photo let us know.  

Panic over!!  

It would seem the battery is connected to the starter relay.
Thanks for the replies. I have taken some pics and stuck 'em on photobucket.
Here is the link. http://s1069.photobucket.com/albums/u476/100weight/

I also took some pics of the taillight wiring. Maybe you'll be able to see something  obvious. If more details are required, let me know and I'll do my best to answer them.

Thanks for the help thus far.
CWT  

Yes, all connections shown in your pics appear to be correct. The light issue could even be a worn out hidden wire somewhere along the way shorting out on the car frame. I had no backup lights when I first got mine, and there seemed to be no obvious reason till I traced the wiring and a small ground was cut.

Oh, and a tip!

Those starter relays have a bad habit of deciding not to work when you've just walked out of a grocery store with ten bags of groceries. I carry an insulated foot long 10 gauge wire in my glove compartment in case of emergency. If you are sure the battery is good, you can jump the wire between the positive battery terminal and the small terminal on the relay that has a brown wire and rubber cap in your pictures. This will bypass the relay and start the car....just make SURE your Pony is all the way in park or you will have to chase it through the parking lot.

 

i should have posted this diagram.. as it shows the tail light grounds also...


they are all the way to the right of the image...




by the way.. in the diagram i posted a few posts up...   does anybody see the engine to firewall ground..

who knows ford around here.. anybody???   do you think that ford would have spent 50 cents on a ground wire .. if they did not HAVE TO have it..

electrons take the shortest route possible...    the a bunch of engine stuff needs to be connected via the ground wire to the firewall...  instead of via the battery cable and the inner fender well.  

Mine has a short braided ground. I may have put it there myself....don't remember. Just seems like natural sense - all my GM's have them.  

Right. I've had a little play and made a step forward but took a step back in the process.

I had put foam mounting pads between the housing and the car, so I removed these.
When I signal left, I get the left side signalling.
When I signal right, I get the right side signalling.
Yay!
No sequencing however.
Aww!

When I brake, they both light up.
Yay!
When I signal (either left or right) the correct side works, and the other side stays lit.
Yay!

When I put the park lights on, only the right side comes on.
Aww!
When braking or signalling with park lights on, the right side is on.
Aww!

When I put the main lights on, ALL lights go out. Interior, instrument, tail and head lights.
WTF???

So I guess it is a grounding issue. How would I add a ground wire to my taillights? Any ideas as to what's causing the other issues?

Thanks again.
CWT

PS thanks for the tip re the starter relay. Touch wood I have not encountered that problem and long may that continue.  

this is a commercially available ground strap that dorman produces...



Help/15 in. Universal Ground Strap
Price: $5.99 at AZ..
Part Number: 60213
Alternate Part Number: 644-125

with some ring terminals of the proper size for your bolts.. you can create one of these...

its best to use something like this between the engine and firewall.. as there is a LOT of flexing there..   the fine strands are because the electrons actually move along the surface of the wire.. more strands.. more surface area ..   the braided wire is probably equal to a 10 or 12 gauge.. i have not had one in my and and though about comparing sizes...  braided wire is very flexible.

since your tail lights are stationary..  you can use conventional probably 18 gauge wire as LEDs take almost no power compared to the original design bulbs..


you still have a bad ground to the left tail light housing...  or where the bulb connects to the socket...  

and you still need at least the block to firewall ground...

this is the inside of the dash board.. notice the ground connection between the cluster and the Firewall brace..   this may be in good shape on yours...



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

just for reference..  this is the picture of a 1997 Tbird 3.8...



notice the smaller wire from the battery negative terminal.. closest to you in the picture  it vanished out of camera view down to a multiple ground connection about 2 inches out of view... the wire up and to the small green bolt on the core support is in its proper location.. but the previous thick stranded wire was fatigued. the strands were broken and sticking out ready to poke fingers...  this cured a LOT of problems on this car that belongs to a former ford mechanic.. who on his own ford had overheating problems...  hint.. the ground wires that vanish down in front of the battery.. are for the electric cooling fan.  he only had about 6 strands of wire out of probably 25 still connected to drive a 25 or 30 amp radiator cooling fan..

remember.. electrons flow from NEGATIVE TO POSITIVE...  if you don't have a GOOD ground through the entire car..   you won't have enough electrons to make the circuits work..

i hope this helps...

i will have to go back and look at the LED tail light site and see if i can see a spot you can  run a direct ground wire ...

please also check the operation of the front turn signal and running lights..

turn on the running lights by pulling the headlight switch only ONE notch...

do any of the turn signal indicators on the dash board light up..  then start flashing as normal when you operate the turn signal in that direction..    the ground for the parking lamps is trying to get electrons via the turn signal indicator bulb.. as that is grounded as to the dash and the circuit i have outlined...  except.. perhaps on your car.. its NOT hooked up on the engine side..

do you have a digital volt meter..

this 2 minute test will verify if the engine and body are properly grounded..

engine running.. headlights on..  even if they don't light up...

set digital volt meter to 20 volts DC scale..

1.   Negative battery post to the positive battery post..   should get if everything works properly 14.1 to 14.6 volts..

2   Negative battery post to the engine block... 0.04 is a good reading.. more than that is BAD..

3. Negative battery post to the body...  0.02 volts is a good reading..    more than that is bad..

4. engine block to the body...   0.02 volts is good... more than that is bad..

on these last 3 tests...   0.00 is also a bad reading..  yes... test again with the meter set at 2 volts DC...

this can be done with a 5 buck digital volt meter. or a 25 buck digital volt meter or a 400.. buck digital volt meter..  

its a 2 minute test..   find a car that works.. try it on that car first...

try several cars..

this is the first test and the last test i do on almost any car that i work on ..

post results ... i would like to see them...

braz.. try this.. its only 2 minutes..  

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, light bulb in Braz's head.

CWT, I think I just now snapped to what you mean by "sequencing" tail lights, and if I think it's what your talking about, my pony would be running for the hills.
Are we talking about those LED lights that "walk" across the back?  

Wayne I think I'm probably lost about this whole thread. If the tail lights are stationary, how do they sequence.........I'm just probably not understanding where the problem lies in getting a simple set of Mustang tail lights going, the cars are almost infantile..

What I'm getting from the term "sequencing" is refering to those "traveling from left to right" LED things that don't belong on a '65 Stang...?

If it's what I'm picturing, it's like replacing the VU meters in a classic Harrison console with digital LED bars.

Am I just not seeing the question clearly?  

wait.. there is a whole article on them...

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techarticles/mump_0908_how_to_install_sequential_led_taillights/viewall.html

as for the tail lights issue...

differentstrokesfordifferentfolks..

people have said the same thing about installing stroker cranks.. and overdrive transmissions...

people have also hated fuel injection systems and feed back carb systems so bad.. they have installed a performance carb and intake.. then complained that they get only 12 to 14 MPG instead of the over 20 MPG with a feed back carb..  or more than that with fuel injection..