Starter ?

My 65 289 starts fine when its cold but it fights with me when I try to start it when its hot or has just been running at oporating temp. any ideas?

Thanks  

do you have headers????  where the starter is getting heat soaked???

can you do the voltage drop tests i post a lot...

plus a cranking test with the digital volt meter..

set digital volt meter to 20 volts scale..

engine running .. headlights on.

1. battery negative to the battery positive 14.1 to 14.7 volts

2. battery negative to the engine block.. 0.04 volts is expected

3. battery negative to the body..   0.02 volts is expected

4. engine block to the body... 0.02 volts is expected..

post your results..

now..     while somebody is there to help you crank the engine...

test 2 again.. battery negative post to the engine block..   post your results.. while the engine is cranking...

next..

battery positive post to the battery side of the starter relay stud..  while the engine is cranking..   post your results..

battery positive to the wire connection right at the starter.. post your results..  WHILE cranking..

some digital volt meters have a MIN / MAX button that makes this an easy measurement to get..

you can get a parts store to put their computerized charging / starting system tester on the car..

where they put the tester amp clamp on the wire to the starter and see how many amps its drawing..  

Hi again, Well I guess I asked the wrong question about my 65 289 4bbl automatic the issue i am having my is that when my engine is cold and i turn the key to start it it turns right over and starts running immediatly but after it has been running at oporating temp for any amount of time when I go to start it up again if it is still warm it kinda fights to start but I dont think its the starter but I dont know what to do when I turn the keys the engine will crank just fine but I have to hold the gas pedal right down to the floor in order to get it to start and it still cranks for like 20-30 seconds before it will start that way. So thats what is happening whith my stang and Again I just dont know what to adjust or change in order to get quicker starts when my engine is warm.

THANKS FOR ANY HELP OR SUGGESTIONS!!!!!  

add a fuel filter directly before the fuel pump... use a fuel injection type...

this is an FF745 at AZ.. fits 90 fords.. almost any..     you might have to add enough fuel line to put this in a loop. between the fuel line and the pump inlet..   this prevents the sediment from getting into the fuel pump and carb..  this just pushes into the hose and is clamped on.. works great..



once installed... with a cold motor... disconnect the fuel line at the carb.. and extend it with some rubber fuel hose.  

stick that into a clean clear plastic bottle...  unplug the positive side of the coil to prevent sparks..

have somebody crank the engine while you observe the fuel pulses from the end of the hose into the bottle...  have them crank it for 10 to 15 seconds...   they should be full pulses.. each one the same size...  you should get close to pint..   look at the bottom of the bottle for sediment that will be flushed with the full flow test you have just done..

i stick magnets in the tank when i have access...  or a big used speaker magnet from the junk yard on the bottom of the outside to attract sediment to it.. through the bottom of the tank.. this does work..





do you see how the magnets attract the rust in the tank...

once you get the fuel system filtering properly...   hook it back up to the carb.. .   start the engine..    bring the idle to about 1500 RPMs...  choke open... but not a hot motor..   reach down and PINCH the new fuel hose running into the pump..    this starves the pump for fuel.. starves the carb in about 20 seconds... as the engine starts to stall.. you are still holding it at 1500... don't try to rev it.. just release the pliers holding the fuel line closed..  the fuel pump will push a fast pulse into the fuel lines and through the wide open needle and seat flushing the dirt through ...  you may need to do this 2 or 3 times...  it is a sure fire way to clean the needle and seats..  but with the filter installed...  fuel injection type of filters... have finer elements than normal versions..  

Luke, they call this issue percolation and it can be corrected by making sure you have a carb spacer installed between the carb and manifold you also need to make sure your carb float is set correctly if you do have a spacer installed.  

Thanks WayneP , JLG My issue now is I do have a spacer on but as for the sediment in the fuel tank im positive there is none this spring i removed the fuel tank and had to replace the sending unit and when i did that i looked over the tank as well as the fuel that came out of it and there was no rust or sediment inside. SO now i guess i need to ask if you could tell me how to set the float correctly and see if that solves it or if you have any other ideas.

Thank you for any help I really appreciate it  

some sediment comes from the gas stations... mixed right into the gas thats pumped up..

some comes from the inside of the fuel lines where they are corroded by moisture..  

Luke65:
Thanks WayneP , JLG My issue now is I do have a spacer on but as for the sediment in the fuel tank im positive there is none this spring i removed the fuel tank and had to replace the sending unit and when i did that i looked over the tank as well as the fuel that came out of it and there was no rust or sediment inside. SO now i guess i need to ask if you could tell me how to set the float correctly and see if that solves it or if you have any other ideas.

Thank you for any help I really appreciate it

Luke,
the first thing you need to do is to take the air cleaner lid off when the engine is hot and creating the "extended cranking" problem, you're looking for two things, is the choke blade fully open - it should be and is there gas bubbling out of the venturi- it shouldn't be.

The rule of thumb for setting floats is to take the top of the carb off and flip it upside down, the float should be roughly parallel (180 degrees) to the top of the carb or just about 170 degrees (almost parallel)- if it is the float is set correctly. While you have the top off look in the float bowl for sediment and also check that the float valve is correctly seating (blow in the fuel inlet while upside down - air should not escape)  

I checked out the carb and all looks good so I am at a loss completly im going in circles Ive checked out the carb I was told it could possibly be the starter but i dont think thiats the issue since it cranks fine I JUST CANT FIGURE OUT WHY WHEN MY ENGINE IS HOT ITS HARD TO START!!! if you have any ideas of why this is happening through them at me thanks for all the help you guys have already tossed at me and thanks for any ideas anyone may have!  

perhaps i have missed something...  perhaps its an IGNITION problem...

do you have a circuit tester???  test light???




you may also want to pick up a ignition tester... these are under 10 bucks and replace a screw driver shoved into the cap end of the coil wire and spaced from ground to see the spark..  and how much spark the coil can create.. by changing the gap... an important part of the test..





you will probably want to print this test..   with the Circuit tester... put the CLIP end on the R terminal of the starter solenoid ...  stick the probe tip either into the negative battery cable terminal. so its sticking up where you can see it..  you might need to stick it into something up on the engine.. so you can see it from the drivers seat...   now.. slowly turn the key from the OFF position.. to the ON position..   then crank the engine... still watching it as you release from crank to the run position..    should NOT have any drop outs of power flow.. until you turn the key to the off position..   in the ON position.. the bulb may have a medium brightness.. in the cranking position it should be full brightness...  then go back to a medium brightness as the key returns to the run position..   if the bulb goes dark... at any point during key movement from ON to CRANK and back to ON...  then you have a problem.. describe when it goes dark..

you will either have a bad ignition switch... or a bad starter solenoid....

this test probably will take you about 3 minutes ...


next test to test the coil output voltage takes 2 people.. or you will need a remote starter switch..



you need to crank the screw in the coil tester to about the 25KV mark...  pull the coil wire from the center of the distributer cap...  stick it on the end of the tool... ground the clip... use the remote starter to crank the engine.. or have somebody crank it for you... while you LOOK without touching the tool... see if you get a NICE BRIGHT BLUE spark...  or if you get a whimpee orange spark at the 25K mark.. you have a bad coil...  or a voltage supply problem or a ground issue if you have points... that should have been found on the above test...

if you get a bright blue spark at 25K.. open the tool to 30K and test again..   most point type coils should be able to make a nice bright spark to about 35KV..

this test will again.. take 3 to 5 minutes...   you might have to use the coil test tool clip on the end of the coil wire.. and stick the other end against a good ground on the engine block...

with these tests.. you will be testing and verifying the

Ignition switch

starter solenoid..

ignition coil...

and all the wiring and connectors between..

when you turn the key on...   the coil positive gets positive voltage through a resistor wire to reduce current to the coil.. this is normal..

when you turn the key to the cranking position.. the R terminal on the solenoid becomes active when the starter solenoid is activated.. this sends full battery voltage to the R terminal and bypasses the resistor wire to the positive side of the coil to create a higher voltage spark during cranking...

the ignition coil windings can short out and reduce spark output..  this is a serious problem with a LOT of late model coils...  this causes a spark on electronic ignition cars that will barely jump a quarter inch.. and it will be orange.. a good electronic ignition coil will throw a 3/4 inch bright blue spark..  

If the condition is still you have to hold the throttle full open and crank 20-30 seconds, when hot, to get it lite off, that's an overly rich condition. When it starts is there a large puff of black smoke from the tail pipes?
You should also check that the choke pull off diaphragm is working correctly (put a vacuum source to it and watch it open or physically open it and holding the vacuum hose shut where it attaches to the carb -it should remain open), also verify the choke cap is indexed at no more that 2 notches rich.